Safwah Islamic Network Forums

Salam, Akhi I chose to start up the thread here and I'll wait for you to drop up your conception thoughts about the mentioned group and why you think they're so and so, and plz back up your points with proofs.

Jazaka ALLAH khairan.

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Assalamu 3aleikum,
Sorry it took me ages to reply to this. Thats because I have been busy offline. To answer your question, yes they are against modern society( this being the mentioned group). Ill give the most important point to just summarise as this will take ages:
They are against education. This is proven by the fact they discourage people from pursuing material education and encourage them to just fight. By not pursuing further knowledge, our societies will be just backward and underdeveloped and we will never be able to fend for ourselves. That is, if they have their way. I hope thats enough.

Sorry bro but it's so wrong to slide such accusations in such huge generalization, and we have first to precise which group we're speaking about since they differ from place to place depending on their previous backgrounds, culture and costume.

Sometimes blaming the Creed on something related to the local customs is a big mistake, take for example some tribal areas where they restrict women from being outside because of their over protective behaviors towards their own daughters, sisters, wives and mothers, and that was before getting indulged in any type of international war or any thing else, it's just how things work there!

The point is do we have to start refuting them now because they're performing the highest level of Imaan based on their 'Aqeedah so that we can find a link between their ideology and their cultured social behavior?

I don't think so and it's obviously silly, the call to the fight is not a man-made rule or from their innovation but it was written in the Quran:

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Correction: You mean custom, instead of costume. Yes, maybe I generalised. I was speaking about those groups in Somalia, especially the youth group. Yes, I know that J is waajib, but they are hardly following the correct, wise, guidelines.
In their aqeedah is they have the following:
1) No talks with the opposing side
2) They have a right to fight. Meaning, they will cause a war just to exercise that right.
3) The end justifies the means. If civilians and innocents die, they will be raised with their deeds.
4) No diplomatic relations with any kuffar people. Which raises the question, do they make their own weapons?
So, yes they are against modernisation. No state can be created that will be modern by such people.

Thanks for the correction.

But all what you have mentioned above is not something 'Aqadi but Fiqhi?

1- How can this fall under the 'Aqeeda?
2- Talks about what?
3- Whom to talk with?

As of one I hope you'll answer me.
As for the 2nd, the Shabab didn't appear before the country was invaded but after the Habashi Ethiopians invaded the whole land and the so called Legal Government kept its mouth shut as a discrete approval which brings us back to your question:
Should they talk about whether they should expel the invader or not?

I hope you clarify the 2nd point so that I can understand the situation better.

The 3rd point is talk with the current puppet UN-Gov or with the Ethiopians who had invaded Somalia again?

And for killing innocents, this is another deep issue that has more details and proofs to be given, Al-Shabab announced that their 1st mission is to protect the civilians and they proved that in many occasions unlike the Habashis and their allies who bombed Markets and schools without differentiating between fighters and civilians, but if you're speaking about collateral victims then I guess they're not killed by a collateral intention at all which happened in every war and Sheikh Ibn 'Uthaymeen spoke about it when the Chechen bros (Saudi Abu Umar Sayf in Specific- Ibn 'Uthayneen's Student) asked him about some Muslims who may die unintentionally and who may be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it happened even amongst the high sophisticated armies by killing themselves and they called it Friendly-Fires, it happened to Khalid Ibn Al-Walid ra and it's a human nature to fell in such evils, I'm not saying this should be tolerated, no they have to pay Diyah and to apply Shari'ah and set stricter rules about this but I can't hold any human being for 'Ismah unless he's a Prophet or a Messenger Ma'ssoum by ALLAH SWT and my question is: Do these errors void their Jihad?

Can we blame the Palestinians too because they refused to drop their weapons in exchange with the so called Diplomatic Affairs and in exchange with removing the Blockade that will finish their Starving sufferance?

ALLAH SWT gives his chosen peoples such difficulties to strengthen their wills and their 'Aqidah to be self dependent on ALLAH SWT alone, as the story of the Israelis who were with Moses and when they escaped from the Pharaohs they feared to enter Jerusalem because they had used to the slavery and the weakness but ALLAH SWT punished them by the 40 years of astray in the Desert where the old generation died and the new generation grew up breathing the air of freedom and living with the toughness of the heat and the weather, that generation was the chosen one to defeat the tyrants in Jerusalem and it's happening again now to our beloved brothers in the War zones in general after the years of the foreign colonizations.

And for your 4th question, I can say it has nothing to do with Modernization (Modernisation/UK-ENG) and I can give the proof of Germany and Japan when they applied a total isolation on themselves and look at what they have been now and what they reached! But let us first get rid of the invader who raped our every right to live.

One other thing, how could they have diplomatic ties with countries holding them as a terroristic group and they all pour money to fight them? can this make any sense of sanity at all?

Finally if you want them to have diplomatic relationships with the others you want them to compromise their weapons with an invisible chair in the so called United Nations while it's Scattered Nations indeed, this is if they give them such a place so to speak!

Ya Akhi, how would you ask them to take care of the technological aspect while everybody around them is raining bombs and bullets above their heads? Why we don't ask this question about Afghanistan? Or Iraq? Or Palestine? Or Checheny?...etc?

What I have noticed is that our society affects us in a way or the other, for example an Iraqi living in Iraq would go against ISI and claim they have a president forgetting he was a USA made, an Afghani says the same thing about Karzai, in Chechney there is the puppet Kadirov and so on?

While if you ask him about the other place he would agree with you without double checking his stand point, what I'm saying is that if we let go our feelings' ties and look for the true Mujahideen who fought to rise the Word of La Ilaha Illa ALLAH then we'll find out who's sincere and who's not.

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Thank you for your reply. Yes, you are right, it falls under fiqh rather than Aqeedah. It seems you drifted the discussion to a rather different topic than the one we began with, and which is the title of this thread. You asked are they for a modern society, and the anwer is no. They can never procure modern arms and mostly hope that we go back to the medieval times so that they can display their valor on equal terms( which never happened for muslims).
It also seems you dont know a lot about the youth movement. These guys have been there in one form or the other for the past 30 years but started using this name for the last 8 years. Way before the habashis invaded. They are a splinter group of a splinter group of a splinter group of what today is saudi salafism. So are the more 'moderate' groups, and more extremist takfri groups.
You say it is okey not to open dialogue with people you dont agree with. I want the proof for that in the quran and sunnah.
You say they take extreme caustion to kill civilians. I say wallahi they dont. They use rusty old mortars to bomb military bases in civilian areas FROM civilian areas, causing death by their stray hits AND the enemy's replies.
I ask God to lead them and us in the right path. Aaameen.

Nope Ya Akhi, I was answering your questions one by one, and that was a must and Alhamdo Lilah we're finished with the previous points.

Now back to:
I'm afraid you're wrong, because building and improving a civilization is not Black & White answer, but there are lots of factors and criteria taken to establish the basic infrastructure to start such a world wide Millennium project.

The first Factor is the peaceful Atmosphere.

I'm going with your flow and let's say I'm Ashabab leader and I've appointed you as my personal adviser, and I want to start developing the country, what would you suggest?

1- Dropping our weapons and start a scientific revolution and wait for the enemies to wipe us off the earth!

2- Submit my rendition to the west and live as a slave and allow them to build their bases on my land and allow them to spy on me and steal my resources in exchange for technology (i.e: South Korea, Iraq, KSA...etc)

3- Leave my country and live in the west to build their countries (i.e our scientists...etc)

I'm open to your options Akhi and I'm all ears?

Plz enlighten me bro?

I still remember the first video I watched them claiming their Name & Belief and I know about the Islamic Courts but here we have a different case just like what happened in Checheny and the nowadays Imarat claimed by Abu 'Uthman Omarov Dukku and in Afghanistan with Taliban and the rest of the chain, here is a link you can refer to bro:

Harakat al-Shabaab Mujahideen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very easy Akhi:


As a result bring me an Islamic conditions to make such a truce convention and we'll speak again, I reduced all the proofs to this one for the sake of summarizing and remember this can be debated over the Puppet Gov not the UN or Ethiopians and I guess you know so or we'll take another direction in our talk here.

If so then this must be posted at their Forums to take care about the issue and I have to add also that people should not live in these areas, and I saw a video warning people to stay away from these places, so who we should blame here?

Again you have to ask them also if they're applying the Fatwah of Ibn Taymiyyah about Tatarrusse, this is another matter you should address.

Again you ask me questions that took us away from the main subject, anyway let's see your options from above.

Ameen.

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Assalamu aleikum,
Well, this is interesting:
ا . So they should talk with the government huh?

Anyway, you asked:
I would remind you that you dont need to do any of those options. I would remind you that you were indeed given an option, which is still on the table, to mend your differences with the govt in return for peace and discontinued hunting of yourself.
If you accept that and decide to form a unity government, you could remove all the kufr clauses and dominate the government as you dominated the Courts. Then you could start improving higher education( like the minister you most properly had blown up). This will help build a modern, technologically advances state for Islam.
As for going to their forums. I might actually do that. But let me warn you, most people in that forum are regular people who are not in somalia anyway. Oh Well....

Wa 'Alaikom Salam,

But do you have any knowledge on the Sulh conditions?

That's what I was speaking about.

The gov has no problem for Ethiopians to stay.
The gov has no problem with UN forces/agencies/spies to stay.
The gov does not favor applying Shari'ah.
The gov bends to the west and especially USA and wants everybody to do the same.
...etc

What kind of Sulh we do speak about here?

Explain more and we'll reach something insha'a ALLAH.

And now you're asking for entering the parliament and participate in a Democratic state/republic/whatever?

Isn't Democracy against Shari'ah?

I may add which kind of Sulh I'm with:

The Gov fights side by side with the Mujahideen to expel the invaders.
The Gov applies Shari'ah since the both sides are Muslims, so what's the big deal.
The Gov kicks out the UN and their allies.
The Gov stops invoking the West to interfere and help them.
...etc

Was the above a lot to ask for?

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I didnt say the youth should join the govt, but to get into talks with them in such a manner that the govt works in such a way that there is no kufr. Before sulh are discussions for sulh. The youth are refusing discussion at all, and thats the barrier to a lasting solution.